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Post by Esn on May 13, 2005 20:21:24 GMT -5
Just wondering... which language will Nim's Journey be in? I wouldn't mind at all if it's in Swedish, since I think it's a beautiful language and it seems only appropriate, but it might hurt its commercial chances in some countries... particularly the USA where people are so terrified of subtitles that they'd rather watch crappy remakes of good foreign movies than put up with reading text on a screen.
Speaking of that, do you already have voice actors in mind for the characters in your film, or is it still too early in the development process?
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Roamer
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Post by Roamer on May 14, 2005 0:53:14 GMT -5
Isn't Nim's Journey successful at international English-speaking NG? I'm not sure, but I think that as a flash and as yet Nim's Journey is a bit far from being presented via channels other than Internet (or other computer networks), where people are more or less used to reading. Moreover, should it be made in English, there would always remain the problem with non-English-speaking countries, so... The language for Nim's Journey, as far as I can see, is obviously Swedish. It's always possible to make a translation if necessary. UPD: By the way, your speaking about Russia in a neighbouring thread... Of course, English's becoming more and more common, but still I truly believe Swedish with native-language (or even English, it's easier to read it) subtitles would be much better in this case
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Post by Esn on May 14, 2005 2:37:45 GMT -5
Isn't Nim's Journey successful at international English-speaking NG? I'm not sure, but I think that as a flash and as yet Nim's Journey is a bit far from being presented via channels other than Internet (or other computer networks), where people are more or less used to reading. Moreover, should it be made in English, there would always remain the problem with non-English-speaking countries, so... Nim's Journey has very little dialogue (and Gooberstory has none) and it relied mostly on atmosphere, so the language wasn't much of an issue, but doing the same thing for Nim's Journey might be a little harder (though certainly not impossible; Triplets of Belleville managed it). Also, non-English speaking countries are more used to reading subtitles. Most films in Sweden ARE subtitled. That would probably be quite expensive, and really, NO dubbing is better than bad dubbing (although I quite realize that most people in Russia wouldn't agree with me on this... last time I was there all foreign films were dubbed. Too bad in the mid-90s almost nobody could afford good dubbing and as such many good movies were severely diminished by the one-actor dubbing that was commonly employed. Parajanov's last two films were treated in this way, and even now the RusCiCo DVD of "The Legend of Surami Fortress" contains the Russian voice-over instead of the original actors; they seem to not even have realized that anybody could wish for the original soundtrack). Russians are still striving to emulate Americans I see. You know, there's a joke running in Toronto: A man goes to a Russian delicatessen to buy some salami. He is asked: "вам поsliceить или целым pieceом?" It may be funnier if you live here, of course. Anyway, back on topic, Swedish is certainly a good choice for the film itself without taking commercial factors into account, and critics will likely be impressed by the "audacity" of somebody from some tiny little country making a film in their own language. I do think though that regardless of the language the film is shown in when it's finally comleted, it must find an international audience somehow; it would be quite an historical moment too. Has Sweden had any other good animators in the past?
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Roamer
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Post by Roamer on May 14, 2005 9:49:47 GMT -5
Yes, dubbing spoils movies and, nonetheless, is popular. But, as you mentioned above, the first audience for such a movie will be in art-houses (or art-cellars, as it is often the case in Russia when it comes to something not too mainstream). So such audience is far more ready to appreciate subtitles. Besides, good tastes and traditions are worthy to try to institute ;D In the late 80s and early 90s the problem was not only with funding, but also with the need to make things quick. As many films previously banned from USSR began to flow in, the audience was craving to watch them, and watch them fast. So studios had to work at a double, and that crave allowed them to economize on voice actors. By the way, most one-actor dubbed movies in which the voice is that nasty nasal one (apart from those dubbed by Volodarsky ) were imported illegally, so for those it would be even stranger to invite a whole bunch of voice actors to sit there with clothes pegs on their noses ;D However, nowadays enough movies of those believed to be of higher quality are being re-dubbed with many actors invited. The real problem is the quality of translation. I even actually appreciate when English idioms are translated bluntly literally, because when our translators try to make an artistic translation of anything, there mainly appears a brand new work of art in which the text has very little in common with the original. And in this case, you can never know what the true author wanted to say. That's why I think the original sound should always remain - both for those who want to hear it and for those who understand the language. Not what I meant. I wanted to say, if you make one international version of a movie with voice in some not so common language (i.e. any language apart from English ) with subtitles in English, it will do, despite that subtitles in language native for the country of demonstration would be better. And it's easier, at least for me, to understand written English, not spoken. What I mean is that an English-subtitled version would do for, e.g., russian art-cellars, whereas without subtitles you'd almost have to translate it. Actually, I would say that today Russians are far less willing to emulate Americans. They tried for a decade, but it didn't improve their lives. As for that famous Toronto joke, I reckon it's just because of habit of speaking English and of Russian words sinking into deeper areas of memory, replaced by English equivalents. By the way, I'm by no means a pro-Americanist, but I tend to sometimes employ in discussions with my friends English words to describe notions which in Russian demand several words instead of one. A tiny country? Even living in Russia I have never regarded Sweden as being small. And the name of Sweden is, to my mind, even "larger" in the world. However, it's known to export voices "in English" (like ABBA) or books (which are naturally always translated), so it would be great to export language somewhere beyond the names of Ikea products. Such an "originality" may even increase success if promoted properly So, I see we come to a decision that dubbing in nonsense, that Swedish is good and that success of international presentation is needed. About "just wondering..." I now just wonder what do others, Ola and the rest of present at the forum, think about two crazy-sounding ones deciding how they could provide the best possible success for a movie which someone with unknown plans for it will probably make somewhen in the future ;D
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Post by Ola Schubert on May 16, 2005 12:14:52 GMT -5
Hi there, sorry for the delay, but I have a hard time to keep up with everything. Just finished a short that I have been working on for a long time, not that it would take a long time to make, but it has just been laying there, collecting dust. That was a long sentence...
Of course Nim’s Journey will be in Swedish, it would be wrong to use anything but their own language. Luckily for me we are living in a digital age where dubbing movies is very common. I am a Swede, and Swedish is my native language, but my intentions are indeed to make this film for everyone out there, so anyone who would like to help is more than welcome. I would like to dub the movie in every language but English… just kidding. But Russian would be nice, as would Japanese, Chinese, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Finnish, etc. etc. I have no voice actors yet, I would like to finish up with the storyboarding so that I know what characters I will end up with. I am open for any help and contribution during this process I have not started working with dialogues yet, but when I do I would like to have some help from as many as possible. I am happy to see you people discussing this project, among other things. I am silently watching the dialogues unfolding and I am inspired by what you write.
Keep it up!
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Roamer
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Post by Roamer on May 16, 2005 15:32:32 GMT -5
Dubbing? I'm not up to argue, but to my mind, it is important that the sound, at least at the start, stays original, as it is. I for one was not only enchanted with the movie of Nim's Winter Tale, but also I was glad to hear yet another language (now in prose, after being presented a few Garmarna's songs) which went apparently so well with the general style of the work (or so it seemed to me). Well, maybe the latter is just common fascination with the unknown and beautiful (and all languages are beautiful, while most are unknown)... Then again, one may say that those who are eager to listen to Swedish in this movie are generally capable of reading in English, which makes the existing version suitable for them, and for the rest dubbing would be more comfortable. So, now I see I might have well said nothing Well, trying to infuse some sense into this post, French, Russian and German are already here, hopefully more will come, and I think that whenever you feel you could have used some secondary help, we will always do what we can - seems that is why we came here...
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Post by Ola Schubert on May 17, 2005 3:57:15 GMT -5
I agree that dubbing is not the greatest thing in the world. But is is a good option for those who can not read...
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Roamer
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Post by Roamer on May 17, 2005 8:28:31 GMT -5
Oh.. Really... I've just never noticed it, that is, having learnt to read at about three (same year I got regular access to TV set), but some really start going to school illiterate. While they generally start watching "movies" (just can't call this a cartoon) a bit earlier...
Actually, it has just clearly dawned on me that Nim's Journey could be of interest not only for those more or less grown-up, but for children too ;D
Well, I knew you would finally be totally right in every aspect ;D
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Ark
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Animation. And on.
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Post by Ark on May 17, 2005 10:52:30 GMT -5
I went to school illiterate... But I can read and right now! Don't you worry. ...Keep typing Pedro!
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Roamer
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Post by Roamer on May 17, 2005 11:33:14 GMT -5
Ark, you are British, as far as I remember, so you went to school a little bit earlier than at 7 years, am I right? Well, I too was born illiterate, in that case ;D But now we both keep typing... In the previous post I simply understood that a person watching this film but unable to read wouldn't be a total exception...
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Ark
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Animation. And on.
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Post by Ark on May 19, 2005 13:40:43 GMT -5
In britain, you start school just after 4. >.<
Well, I did, it's changed to 5(ish) now.
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Post by gabrielknight on Oct 6, 2005 20:17:40 GMT -5
I love listening to foreign languages, especially when I can't understand it and have to read the subtitles. For instance, some German, as well as a little Japanese I can understand. Languages when I can't speak the language have some amount of mystery to it. As well, Swedish is just a beautiful language. Dubbing would be nice, but different from the dubbings of the past. If Ola is closely involved (if not directly) involved in the process, I can see the dubbings into any language becoming as beautiful as the original-language film.
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Post by Ola Schubert on Oct 7, 2005 3:01:38 GMT -5
Most of the cartoons are dubbed in the end, but I will do a Swedish version first I think. I have not thought about it really. Everything on the site is in english, so maybe a english version should be made paralell to the Swedish. The only problem I have is to find good english voice actors in Sweden.
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lampo
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Post by lampo on Oct 20, 2005 13:46:58 GMT -5
I think that swedish language is magic.... Nims is from Sweden and he has to speak Sweden.... I'm from Italy... it's not so hard reading subtitles.... plz don't translate him.... it's like rebuild the Pisa tower because some1 doesn't like the colour......
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Post by Mario on Oct 20, 2005 18:01:45 GMT -5
I wont mind swedish, but well a good english version with decent voice actors cannt harm i think.
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